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- "The Pulse" --#53 / Interview w Unstructured Capital
"The Pulse" --#53 / Interview w Unstructured Capital
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Recruiting Timeline:
Banking:
Where We’re At:
SA 2025: Citizens opened its application this week. So far ~110 banks have opened applications. The SA 2025 is concluding with 95%+ offers distributed. In the next month or so, we will stop tracking this process. Please reach out if you’re looking for mock interviews or any coaching!
FT 2025: No new updates. There are currently 9 firms recruiting for FT 2025. FT recruiting is relatively ad-hoc with networking being an incredibly important piece of the puzzle. If you’re looking to jump into the FT 2025 recruiting process, you need to be networking and prepping interview responses TODAY
New SA 2025 Applications:
Citizens Bank: Middle-market (SA 2025)
See below to gain access to our premium database, updated weekly, which houses the application processes for over 200+ banks/consulting/buyside firms! Gain an edge over everyone else by not having to spend countless hours tracking applications and deadlines.
Consulting:
Where We’re At:
SA 2025: 13 SA 2025 applications have been released so far. Firms will continue releasing applications until November. However, smaller firms typically release applications later.
SA 2025 released apps:
KPMG: Advisory Intern, Deal Advisory - Financial Due Diligence (SA 2025)
PWC: Business Processes Intern (SA 2025 - Closed).
Curtis & Co: Boutique firm (SA 2025 - Closed)
Protiviti: Tech Consulting (SA 2025 - Closed)
RSM: Tech, Risk, and Business Improvement Intern (SA 2025 - Closed)
Deloitte: Business Technology Solutions Summer Scholar (SA 2025 - Closed)
Berkeley Research Group: Associate Consultant Intern (SA 2025)
Oliver Wyman: Summer 2025 Intern (SA 2025)-Closed
Bain: Associate Consultant Intern (SA 2025)
Cavi Consulting: Consulting Associate Internship (SA 2025)
McKinsey: Summer Business Analyst (SA 2025)
BCG: Associate Consultant Intern (SA 2025)
Redstone Strategy Group: Consulting Intern (SA 2025)
Apply ASAP if you’re interested!
Buyside:
Where We’re At:
SA 2025: Vertica Capital Partners and Level Equity opened SA 2025 apps this week. So far ~95 buyside shops have opened applications
SA 2025 released apps:
Vertica Capital Partners: Growth equity, software-focus (SA 2025)
Level Equity: LMM PE (SA 2025)
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Market Update:
Interview with Unstructured Capital
Before diving in, be sure to drop @Unstructured Capital a follow on Instagram! Great page with tons of credit-focused memes and helpful content
Had a great chat with Unstructured where we spoke about recruiting, credit markets, and a little bit about the future of his page. Hope you enjoy!
First, what is your goal with Unstructured and how did you get started with it? Would you ever go full-time? Do you want to stay anon permanently?
I started in 2018/2019, inspired from the other pages that I followed. Feel like I don’t really fit in perfectly with many in finance due to my more creative mindset. It is great to poke fun at the industry and this was my outlet. Litquidity was the main inspo, but most of the pages didn’t dive specifically into the workflows at the desk. Maybe the deepest dive most pages will take is like something about a sellside M&A process. Made like 10 memes and posted them on there while following 1-2k people. One of them got like 300 likes which seemed viral for not much work. This was a little bit of validation. Didn’t mean for these to go anywhere.
I’d just be on deals and be like ‘this is fuckin stupid I can post about this.’ The first couple of years there were so many templates and things to make fun of, the whole process was really easy and almost therapeutic to take out the frustration of the day-day bullshit on the job. Then I think you said something about ‘what is the goal for the page?’
“Yeah, what motivates you to keep going?”
Got some dms that ‘my life sucks’ or ‘my deal is really shitty right now, but your memes kept me going.’ This is a big motivating factor. However, definitely want to keep this at a shits and gigs typa thing. Regarding full-time, I’d fuckin love to do this full-time. But realistically you need a ton of scale to be able to run it full time. Could probs only generate $70-100k a year from this if I really grinded, so not totally worth it. Also, I really like my current career and see solid upside. Regarding anon, I want to stay anon for obvious reasons.
What brought you to the world of finance? –outside of money and prestige and what was your background getting into finance (target or non-target, internships, etc.)
I did not do that well in entry level finance classes in college and actually had to retake a weed out finance class. Ultimately I wanted to prove it to myself that I could do it and when thinking about other career paths like quantitative finance or computer science, I realized that shit is so much harder and like, like academically I thought finance was ok. But when it came to doing deals it was more stress and more hours but I like things like how people cut corners and how the job is so real and not academic on a day-day.
Aside from the meme culture where everyone bitches about deals being so easy and like ridiculous— in reality, it’s not that easy. And when it comes to looking at businesses it is really cool to assess different aspects like the demand drivers and the margin compression/expansion. The modeling behind the deal. The history of the company and challenges it might face. The structuring of the financing. Beats the shit out of a regular office job where nothing really matters. I understand we aren’t saving the world and are likely net neutral. Like we aren’t doctors. But I don’t view it as an office job waste-of-time type of situation. I think it can give people a purpose.
“Do you think a lot of people in finance are afraid of going to some monotonous, shitty office job?”
Yeah I think so. I think a lot of people are pretty real and honest about everything. That personality doesn’t thrive in some super political and proctored office job. I see all of the bad, but like finance isn’t a waste of time and we aren’t all evil haha. Great exit flexibility and you’re paid a lot.
As a younger professional, what about credit interested you and how did you land your current role? What might a junior in college find compelling when considering a career in PC vs. PE?
I like credit because on a high level I like doing more deals and less digging. Lots of people shit on credit for being the “dumb guys” which is technically true versus the equity guys. But like the equity guys do so much detailed work where it surpasses the point of interest for me where you gotta see how productive a sales team is or whatever. You might be looking at the compensation package for sales guy #2,000 which is so mundane and removed from the thesis of “let’s make some money.”
However, on the credit side if you’re doing real diligence, you’re going to do some third-party diligence and break down the dataroom to draw some interesting conclusions about how a company shakes up in its industry which paints a story that is really interesting. I also think negotiating financing terms is more interesting than the purchase price of equity. Working with lawyers, turning responses to grids is all much more interesting at the granular level.
“So, would you say credit is a more creative asset class?”
Yeah, what credit may lack in diligence depth, it makes up for in volume and structuring
What interview advice would you give to a college student? What are some red flags you’ve seen in candidates that our readers should be aware of?
Be honest with yourself. Do you find the job interesting? Or do you just want to get paid and find prestige? For the real hardo: don’t tweak as much, you know who you are. Focus more on the present. I see shit on forums like “what PE fund will give me the best placement for B-school?”
Meanwhile they’re like a sophomore or junior in college so thinking that way is pretty ridiculous to me. And like step 1 should be to just get a banking job then figure out what you like and might pursue in the long run. Odds are things will change in your life.
Regarding private credit, many bystanders have no idea what PC actually is. It is a buzzy term. At the end of the day what you’re doing is lending money to companies. If you’re trying to go into PC, just understand what it is (avoid the clout chasing). Go to PE for clout chasing.
-Now onto some markets-related questions-
PE and credit feel very saturated right now. What trends are you seeing in these industries and where do you think they’ll be in 3-5 years?
PC has had a crazy influx of capital over the last 5-10 years. Non-bank, sponsor-backed lending goes back to the late 80s and early 90s so PC is not as new as people are saying, but the money coming in is new. Especially with rates going up the last few years, it is a good spot to park cash and also like the bank fuck ups. Basel III is probably the biggest tailwind. Recently, PC has gotten way more competitive—I’d say even over the last 6-months by a decent margin. This competition isn’t a result of high-quality companies or favorable economics. Umm, more so the result of decent economic conditions after a period of turbulence and most importantly just a massive influx of capital. There have to be losers. Recession will wash the space away a little bit. You’ll see who picked the right companies.
How will PC funds maintain low-mid teens returns when rates are eventually cut? On that note, how many cuts in ‘24 and how many bps?
Probs putting more leverage on a company and diversification in credit regarding looking down the capital structure. These strategies will maintain equity-like returns. The market gets less competitive when you move down the capital structure. People generally like secured debt and more specifically first-lien secured debt. There are also other forms of lending like NAV loans which could be interesting to find value vs. the saturated sponsor-backed market. Also, I think non-sponsor backed lending still seems untapped. The majority of businesses are not sponsor-backed and every management team wants a dividend. So, there you go. And those deals are very interesting and much hairier because these companies don’t have sophisticated management teams and comprehensive reporting packages. Plus, you can charge a shit ton more. Way less competitive. Good for juniors, not as quick processes where some sponsor is breathing down your neck.
“Yeah so like similar to the JV set up between Wells Fargo and Centerbridge?”
Yeah good call. I think those banks are doing the right thing pairing up with PC funds to capitalize on their relationships and cross-sell products.
“So ultimately in PC scale is really important across products, asset classes, etc? Plus, like AUM is a strong component of outcompeting in PC?”
Yeah, like Bx, Ares, and other big shops can perform relationship lending to help sponsors whereas smaller shops can’t and are then stuck with the shittier credits.
Is there a ‘graduation effect’ for typical PC-backed businesses with regards to tapping the bank-dominated bond markets? What are some boxes that need to be checked to get there? Is the overall movement for businesses to stay private longer a tailwind for PC?
The graduation effect is 100% real and PC funds lose business over time. Some bigger funds have syndication desks to retain companies like KKR capital markets or Golub capital markets. However, some of the bigger banks are better at that. Like JPM usually comes and takes many of these businesses. However, I think most people are pretty happy with a 10-year relationship with a given company before it graduates to the traditional syndicated markets.
What are some tenets of a good credit investor vs. a good equity investor?
For the strong credit investor, downside risk thinking is a big difference. I think, I think um it is more about sustainability with credit because it is a pretty different way to think about stuff. If you’re a PE fund, you’re focused on equity and you’re so deep in the capital structure where you need the company to grow and maybe you can screw your lenders over to get out of a bad deal. However, something that isn’t harped on enough is the durability of recurring revenue and historical performance. Especially during Covid where people were underwriting heinous growth stories and they’re all coming back to Earth today. In reality, whatever company you’re looking at probably isn’t the best company in the world.
“So to sum it up, stronger in credit is having a look-back and understanding business cycles whereas PE is really trying to predict the future and dream something to happen almost?”
Yeah, unless there are secular changes, the company probably isn’t that different from an organic perspective and whatever spike there may be is likely to correct itself in the next few years.
That concludes our interview. A huge thank you to @Unstructured Capital for the fantastic insights and great conversation! Please be sure to follow his Instagram: Unstructured Capital
Let us know if you want to see more of these in the future! Let us know if there is someone specific you want us to reach!
Disclosure: Nothing written here is financial advice or should be used for investment decisions.
Learning Point of the Week:
How to be the BEST Summer Analyst
An internship is a 9-10 week interview and you’re pitted against your peers. Return rates are roughly 50% across the industry. Also, you’re being watched 24/7 with all interactions being recorded in some capacity.
Peep the list below to avoid being that guy who has to re-recruit his/her senior year of college.
Be a finance nerd
Dive into every vocabulary word, piece of jargon, methodology, etc. Investopedia will be your best friend. Just like school, understanding the material rather than going through the motions of memorization will make you a much better student.
For example: don’t just know how to calculate EBITDA, look into WHY you’re projecting EBITDA. You chose this industry, so you should get to know how it works whether you like it or hate it. Too many people just show up and churn work product without knowing or caring about what they’re doing.
Have something interesting to say on Monday morning
It is so easy to just say “yeah the weekend was good” and then turn back to your desk. Having something interesting to discuss with your team is a great way to find some commonality and truly connect. Show off your personality, don’t be a robot.
Nail the little things
No one expects you to nail your first LBO from scratch. Focus on nailing the little things like writing good emails, formatting shit correctly, executing on timelines, etc. Show your team that you’re competent and coachable.
Ask good questions and never repeat questions
Avoid asking questions about anything you can find on Investopedia. If you’re working on something, jot down a list of shit you don’t quite understand and circle up with your peers to break it apart. When someone gives you feedback or an explanation, jot it down immediately so you don’t forget it and won’t look like a dipshit repeating a question.
Network across your team and firm
Your work product isn’t really valued as an intern. I definitely made the early mistake of just focusing on my work vs. getting to know my team. Avoid that. Be social and book coffee chats with members of your team and any other person at your firm. The internship is really the only time it is acceptable to book time with some really interesting folks across your firm.
Meet with older analysts / associates early and often to discuss your work product
Please never just send shit up the chain to your VP+. Always have a near peer take a couple passes beforehand to avoid looking like a clown. Your work is going to be riddled with mistakes. Everything from the model to font size is likely to be critiqued from person to person.
Learn Excel and Powerpoint shortcuts and tools
Take the extra 5 minutes to see the limitless options at your disposal after you press the ‘Alt’ button. No need to be a freak and know shit like the back of your hand.
Don’t abuse the corporate perks
Unless you’re at a sweatshop, there is likely no need to be staying late ordering dinner and expensing Ubers every single night of your 9-10 week internship. Don’t be afraid to use these perks when you actually need it, but don’t be the top of your team’s expense report.
Be friendly / casual with close peers, but keep it collegial
Allow your analyst / associate to be the first one to extend an invite to something outside of work. These guys will become your friends at work, but probs have their own shit going on during the weekends. Allow them to hurdle that barrier first.
Dress like you give a shit
Don’t be that guy who wears fuckin khaki shorts and a polo on your first Friday. Keep it simple with suit pants and button down. For the ladies, wear the equivalent. Full suit and tie not needed (you’re not at an actual interview lol)
Going Forward:
Want to make some bread selling the database or coaching other students? Shoot us an email and we would love to work with you.
Last year, we paid $ thousands to our members who helped sell the database.
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Email us with your availability and we will be happy to schedule a session @[email protected]
Students we coached for SA 2025 have received offers at Goldman, JP Morgan, Evercore, and many other firms. Roughly 85% of those coached received offers last year!
Please reach out to us with any questions about recruiting or if you’re interested in meeting the team! ([email protected])
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“The Pulse” #53